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Mary
0:00:00
Soဣmething that businesses tak🤪e for granted, that they need to stop taking for granted right this
minute, is that if you confuse, you lose. People do n🔥ot buy the products tha🎉t are communicated the
most cleverly. They buy the products that are communicated the clearest. Donald Miller💎 says this as
part of StoryBrand. If you are not, you will lose every single time, and most likely🌞 to one of your ♓top
competitors.
Mary
0:00:29
So this is something you📖 cannot ignore. Your messaging has to be a top﷽ priority and clarified as
soon as possible.
Alex
0:00:36
Welcome back to Endless Customers. My 🐈name is Alex Winter and today we are joined by M🃏ary
Brown, our lead web strategist here at Impact Mary. Welcome back to the s💙🌊how.
Mary
0:00:52
Hey, thanks Alex.
Mary
0:00:53
Good to be here.
Alex
0:00:54
Gre♍at to have you here. And today we're talking about something really cool. We're talking about
StoryBrand, which is a great book, great framework. Donald Miller, we're 🙈big fans. But I think there's
a lot💮 of people out there 💖that don't know about StoryBrand. So before we get into like the nitty gritty
pieces of how to implement and roll out and
Alex
0:01:07
like use StoryBrand to your advantage with your business, can you 💛just like high level tell us what
StoryBrand's all about.
Mary
0:01:13
ꦯYeah. So the StoryBrand framework is a marketing strategy tool based on stor🔥ytelling principles. So
it revolves around the idea that people naturally co♚nnect with stories. And it allows you to leverage
stories
Mary
0:01:26
to help people emotionally connect to your mesඣsaginღg.
Alex
0:01:30
Nice, very nice.ꦡ And why is that important? Because I feel like a lot of businesses, it's all about P&L.
It's all about making money, sales, bringing in leads, and it'sꦚ very black and white, and it almost
loses that emotional piece

 

Alex
0:01:43
that really𝕴 is the story brand piece that people connect with, and that people make buying decisions
on, because we know people make buying decisions based off th꧅eir emotions.
Mary
0:01:50
Absolutely, and the reason that it works 🦩is because it's based in certain principles of storytelling, and
it's grounded in, we'll say, three main principles that I like to hearken ba🍌ck to. One of them 🐈is that
you are not the hero of the story. Your customer is the hero of 🐽the st𒐪ory.
Mary
0:02:09
And this totally flips the scrไipt, right? You have to make sure that your prospect is centered on the
story. Next is that you hav♛e to set the stakes. So a lot of people kind of recoil at this a little bit and
they say, I don't want to get negative,
Mary
0:02:22
I don't want to set stakes. But if people don't know what's at stake by not worki🃏ng with you, the๊n
they🤡're not set up for the value proposition. They're really not.
Alex
0:02:30
Right, so true.
Mary
0:02:32
And the last one is that your company is t♐he guide. So 🀅if our prospect is the hero of the story, you
are the guide. And it🐎's all about trust and building trust with that prospect, that poღtential customer,
that yඣou can guide them to that outcome that they're loo🐈king for. And this is where all the emotion
c𒐪omes into pওlay because you are basing it on that trust, being the guide to their hero, setting the
stakes,
Mary
0:02:56
all that good stuff, and it works.
Alex
0:02:59
It definitely works. 🌳And I think that's also why we love Storybrand and the whole framework here at
Impact because it pairs very well withﷺ They Ask, You Answer in the sense that weღ're trying to build
trust. And we do that through communication
Alex
0:03:10
and we do that through telling a good story and conveying our brand messaging in an aut꧂hentic and
real way.
Mary
0:03:17
Yeah, absolutely. Very cool.

 

Alex
0:03:19
So, you work with a ton of companies, y𝓰ou work with a ton of brands, all different industries, B2B,
B2C, when it comes⛄ to building their websites, redesigning ꦇtheir websites, helping them fix things
that are broken with their we🐽bsites, whatever the case may be, you seem to do it all. How does
StoryBrand play int✨o your approach and how🐻 you handle these sorts of situations on your
day-to-day.
Mary
0:03:40
There are so many reasons 🌞why StoryBrand is perfect for websites and why it lends really well to
implementing on a website. So one of them is that websites ar🅠e all about crafting a specific message
and you can really tailor your audience on differen🐲t pages. I mean your story on your home page
might be different on a solution page and you're able to tell those unique st🃏ories on those pages. So
it works really well. Totally.
Mary
0:04:05
Another is structure. So💞 websites are inherently structured, right? You have headings, you have
body copy, you have calls to action. And StoryBrand is really proc𒐪ess-driven for how you're moving
people through the buyer's journey, and that structure allows for that process to really 🔯be built
beautifully within a website.
Alex
0:04:23
Right. That makes sense.
Mary
0:04:25
Okay. Another is the visual element. So, believe it or not, storytelling 🦂very much has to do with
visuals as well because v🍌isuals are so great at evoking emotion. So, think about all the photos, all
the videos 🅘that🧸 you're going to put on your website. They can really help tell that story and evoke
more emotion in ways that just written words
Mary
0:04:43
can't.
Alex
0:04:44
And they can enhance the written words as well.
12
0:04:47
Yeah.
Alex
0:04:48
Which is why it's important to not just go to iSto꧋ck and grab a bunch of🌸 random photos. Not that
iStock isn't great, but pull𝓀ing random photos that aren't your people, that aren't your brand, that
aren't your company.

 

Mary
0:04:58
For real.
Alex
0:04:59
Doesn't seem like the right move, right?
Mary
0:05:00
For real.
Mary
0:05:01
We tell people that all the time, and I'm glad you said, you know, not tha🔯t iStock isn't bad. We always
adv🉐ocate 🎶for a mix, right? You wanna have a mix. You wanna have some stock photography, that's
fine,
Mary
0:05:09
but you wanna have your people in there too, so they can see tha💎t we are 🍌human. We feel
emotions. We connect with people. And that helps build thaꩲt trust as well to see that we are real
people who service real people.
Alex
0:05:21
Yeah. And real people 🌳also, we've been using this technology for a while now. So the ꧋phones and
the internet and all this 🐻stuff, especially with AI, people are smarter now and they know when it's not
an authentic♛ photo. People know when it's a 𒈔stock photo or a stock video or it's maybe a computer
generate🐠d type of thing. People are ge⛎tting a lot more savvy, as Jack Sparrow would say.
Mary
0:05:42
They are savvyไ, and I'm glad you brought up how long we've been used to this type of thing.
Because when you think🍒 about storytelling, stories were painted on cav🍒e walls. That's how long
🍬storytelling has been part of being a human being and how we con🐈nect to other human beings.
Mary
0:05:57
So that's why this is a tale of old as time. It's totally timeless. It will nev🅷er go away, and that's why it
works. But another reas🅺on why this is so great on websites 𒁃is because websites should focus on
benefits. And I say should because I can't tell y🐭ou
Mary
0:06:12
how often I loo𝓀k at a website and they 💮just feature dump, right? It's like, we have this, we have that,
we have this feature, we have that fea♏ture. But when you tell a story, you need toꦚ talk about the
benefits.
Mary
0:06:23
You need to paint the picture of how it makes life better. That is suchꩲ a huge part of StoryBrand, and
a websit🎀e should do that if you're doing it right.

 

Alex
0:06:32
Yeah, it should. And it goes back to🃏 what you were saying, where I think a lot of companies, and I've
done this in the past too, I♏'m a small business owner, where it's all about me. It's like, look at all the
cool things I can do,
Alex
0:06:40
look at my degrees, look at all my awards, look at all the stuff and things, but that do⛦esn't tell a story.
You know, it is just a lot about you and not a lot aboutꦍ how you can help peo🌃ple and what your
services provide to help people get what they need because they're looking﷽ for what they want.
Alex
0:06:54
And that's a fundamental thing.
Mary
0:06:55
Yes🤡. And we're absolutely going to talk about that in messaging. The last thing I want 🐓to say about
why websites are so perfect for impleme🌊nting StoryBrand is the call to action. So that's the purpose
of a website is to call 🐼someone to action and make them do a t🧜hing. And StoryBrand helps you
identify what those action൩s should be. And it's such a huge part of the website, it's such a 🌠huge part
Mary
0:07:17
of ♔clarifying your message that it works perfectly.
Alex
0:07:20
Yeah, 𒁏no, that's a really good point. And we call it the one thing, right? When we'🧸re talking, they ask
you answer, but it's like really figuring out what that CTA, 🔴what that one thing is that you want p🌃eople
to do. And we've seen in the past, the more things that you have, the 𝓡more options for people to
click on, the more confusing it potent😼ially can be, the harder it is to convert because people don't
know which way to go. So it's re🍎ally important to think about tho𓃲se things
Alex
0:07:41
and StoryBrand does a great job of doing exactly that. So my next question, right, wha♔t h🔯appens
when ꦯpeople don't use StoryBrand or they don't implement this correctly and maybe some of the
problems that ♚you've seen through your travels and through your experiences.
Mary
0:07:55
I see, I don't all see the🎶 good ones. I see a lot of the not so good ones.
Alex
0:07:58
Aཧnd we don't have to call anybody out. We can stay general here.
Mary
0:08:01
Yeah, yeah.

 

Alex
0:08:01
But what are some faux pas or things that you've seen where it didn't work or the𝄹y weren't doing it
correctly and how it might have negatively affected their bus🎶iness?
Mary
0:08:09
The bigges♑t issue I see with companies that do not use StoryBrand and do not implement this is
they have a confusing message. So whether they are victim to the curse of knowledge, where th🐭ey
are just dumping▨ level 10 complex concepts and jargon on top of people's heads and they're sitting
there scratching their head
Mary
0:08:29
They don't ꦕunderstand what you're talking about that happens all the time Or they try to be cleveꦬr
and they try to be funny and they𓃲're not coca-cola So you can't get away with being clever You have
to be clear Donald Miller says when you confuse you lose and I think th💜at is the biggest thing that I
see with mes🔯saging the number one thing And when peopl🅷e are confused it sends them directly into
the arms of your competitors.
Alex
0:08:51
Yeah, totally does.
Alex
0:08:52
And trying to be funny sometime♉s, you may think you're 🌜funny, but it might not stick. And you might
not realize how you might be offending people. You might be really turning peop🌳le off in a way that
they're going to your competition because you tried t💮o be funny and it didn't.
Mary
0:09:04
Alex, there's so many times when I will read a message and I will gi🅷ve a writꩵer props and I'll say,
that's reallyꦐ clever. We can't use that. I'm sorry, because that's not the goal. That's not what we're
going for. You can save it 🅘for some of your blog content maybe,
Mary
0:09:20
but on our websi𝓀te we have to be clear. Clarity is k🌜ing.
Alex
0:09:23
Yeah, totally.
Mary
0:09:24
Another issue, and you brought this up earlier, is that companies so often fo🐬cus entirely on
themselves. So 🙈we joke in my department that we call it the three little pigs of web copy because 💖it's
wee, w🎀ee, wee, wee, wee, all the way home because you know businesses will say we've been in
business for 25 years and this is how we help people and we're so🍬 estab🍎lished
Mary

 

0:09:47
and we have all these credentials no one cares no one cares no one ca⭕res all they car💃e about is
how you can help⭕ them and sure you're 75 if you're of business makes you qualified to help🐎 them
but that's all they care about is how you're going to hel🐬p them you have to stop talking about
yourself. You have to flip that script. You h🌺ave to make them the hero of the story. Sꦬo that is
probably the number two thing
Mary
0:10:10
that I see people falling victim to all the time.
Alex
0:10:13
Okay.
Mary
0:10:14
The la𒐪st one that♈ I wanna bring up is lacking that clear next step. So you mentioned this a little bit
earlier with the call to ac🐠tion. And it is amazing to me how many websites I will s🌼ee where either
there's no call to action on the page.
Mary
0:10:27
There's just no call to action, which 🐟is mind-blowing. Or they have a call to ac൩tion that isn't clear, or
it's lukewarm, it's weak. And when people don't have a clear next ꦅstep, they get very confusꦫed about
what they're suppo𝄹sed to🔜 do, and most likely, they're just gonna leave.
Mary
0:10:41
They're go𝔍nna do nothing. So this is so critical to your process, so critical to your website, so
important to your website being your best salesperson that you've got to get that ri𝄹g𝕴ht.
Alex
0:10:53
Got to.
Alex
0:10:54
Got to get it righ♏t. And I've heard from a lot of business owners like the common phrase or thing t🐓hat
recurs a lot is my 🔜website doesn't do anything for us. My website doesn't work. Our website, we
ඣspend all this money on our website and it doesn't convert any leads or really do anything.
Alex
0:11:07
And the f💧irst question should be like, well, let🎃's take a look at the copy on your site and what's your
call to action and whღat are some of these key and 🅷fundamental things that people are really missing.
Mary
0:11:15
It's true. And it's funny ho💧w many people seem mystified about the fact that their sitജe doesn't do
anything for them because♕ I think it's, these things are so basic, Alex. They're so fundamental, but I
think people miss them🐼. It's very easy to miss about how clear, because when people try to be
competitive and they try t෴o stand 🌳out in the market, that's when they try to get clever or that's when

 

they do the curse of knowledge thing and they dump all this stuf﷽f on you You gotta pull it back. You
got to g🌃et back to those basics and you've got to re👍ally do the fundamentals right to win
Mary
0:11:47
Yeah, I couldn't agree more
Alex
0:11:48
We actually had been guide oꦯur head of web services here on the 𓃲show not too long ago And he
was saying the same thing where if he had to choose right you put him you put one of two option🉐s
on the table and 🅷you have to pick one a Very basic w🐈ebsite where the messaging is great and
everything we're talking about right now is locked tig꧙ht an✨d it's very clear versus a very fancy, shiny,
beautiful website that's desi💝gned well but doesn't have any of these story brand elements. H🌠e's like,
I take the basic one all day because
Alex
0:12:14
at least that one will work and will get you the results you ne🌠ed. And then he said over𓃲 time you can
iterate and you can add the polish and you can add those 💙things. But a lot of times people go ri🌄ght to
step two and they want to be clever, they want to be c꧙ompetiꦗtive, they want to be artsy, and it
doesn't always work
Alex
0:12:29
out.
Mary
0:12:30
And one of the things, one of the reasons why that happen🌠s, and I've said the curse of knowledge 💯a
few times, and that iไs because when you are a business and you've got, you know everything about
everything🗹, about your♎ business, what you offer, your solutions, how you help people in your head,
and that's the perspective people hav🔜e when 🌊they're redoing their websites or they're writing their
web copy,�☂� but your user doesn't have any of that. You need to bring it down from a level 10 to
maybe a level 2.
Mary
0:12:57
And if I ever look at a website and I read your hero sectio🌞n and I say, what do you do?
Alex
0:13:02
What do you do?
Mary
0:13:03
That's a really bad thing.
Mary
0:13:04
That's a huge pr🦂oblem. That is a h🥀uge problem, but it is so common. It's bananas. Yeah. So that
should be your number one thing right now, ope🐲n your website, lo𝄹ok at your hero with the eyes of
your prospect, and if it is not clear what you offer, how it makes life better, a🌊nd how people can get

 

Mary
0:13:22
it, you need to update that right now.
Alex
0:13:24
Yeah, that's such a great point. I think, too, it's ha🥃rd to step out of the bubble. So, like, if you're close
to it, if it's your company, it's hard to obꦐjectively step out of that bubble and look at it, like you're
saying, where, like, is this header, is my home page really conv🐲erting or really clear? Do people
know what we do?
Alex
0:13:41
So sometimes, what would you say, like if you can't ﷽step back or if you feel too close to it, do you
recommend having outside people come in or what do⛄ you do in a situation like that where you may
not know but you wanna know the truth even th𓆉ough it may be tough to find out?
Mary
0:13:54
Yeah, so back in the olden days, I might have said, you kno🔥w, ask a friend or ask someone like that.
No💝w, AI, Alex, I'm gon💦na go immediately to Gemini or chat GPT and I'm going to put that copy in
Gemini and I'm going to💖 say, what questions would you have after reading t🎀his about my business?
Or how would you 🎉optimize this to be more clear or something? Ask the
Mary
0:14:16
robots. They're very good because they can look at things in black 💛and white without any of that
industry inside stuff about your company. And they ca💝n give you th🐬at black and white feedback that
you need to say this is not good enough, try writing♉ it this way. So that would be my go-to right now.
Alex
0:14:33
That's a great call. AI has been amazing with this stuff lately and it's only⭕ getꦅting better. And I don't
want to⛦ get down the AI r💮abbit hole, but with GPT 4.0, I'm really excited
Mary
0:14:42
to see what's going to come out.
Alex
0:14:43
Another episode.
Mary
0:14:44
We'll do another episode.
Alex
0:14:45
Yeah, another episode. So we talk about trust and transparency all the time he🌟re. I feel like Marcus,
that's like his staple. That's what we represent here at ꦿImpact. How does that play into StoryBrand
when you're trying to tell a story

 

Alex
0:14:56
and how that conveys into the website? We hit on th🏅is a little earlier, but I wanna lean a little deeper
into how important trust and traღnsparency is. For instance, pricing. A lot of people don't put pricing
on their websites
Alex
0:15:06
and they try to keep th𝔉at very close to the chest. So can we✱ talk a little bit about trust and
transparency?
Mary
0:15:11
Yeah, so I wanna be very clear abo𓄧ut this. While StoryBrand is indeed about telling a story, it is not
sel🐼ective storytelling, ൩and it is not emotional manipulation. I have had people ask about this before,
because it's a fair question.
Mary
0:15:29
It's a, oh, ♐I am penning some fiction. I am telling a story that I want to get people to do the certain
o𓄧utcome 🅰based on the things that I'm saying, and I'm setting the stakes and then I'm setting them up
for the value prop and it can feel kind of, you know, like you might be playဣing with people's emotions
because we say that at the beginning, right?
Mary
0:15:47
We're leveraging storytelling principles to elicit an emotional response. That's true, that's s♑cience,
but you have to be honest and you have to be transparent.🌊 So what this means is you cannot shy
away from the messy parts of the hero's joꩲurney. You can't. Be honest about that. And we talk about
this in They Ask, You Answer all the time.
Mary
0:16:10
When we talk about problems, when we talk about anything messy regarding the journe𒀰y🌠, you are
being more authentic༒. And people 🍬see that as you being more authentic. And that builds trust. You
can't hide🐽 that stuff. 🧸And it also means being realistic about what your solution can do. So you have
to also not over promis𓃲e people things right when you're telling the story. Be very honest
Mary
0:16:36
about ღwhat your solution can do. Paint the picture accurately of how it makes life better and people
will be more apt to🔜 buy into that and to b🧔elieve in that. So you mentioned cost. Cost is one of those
things that people again They recoil at a little bit because they say oh if I put cost on my websi🍷te
People are gonna get freaked out and I need them to🃏 talk to my sales people first They have to
know all ♏the reasons why it does cost that way right our sales people are so great
Alex
0:17:04
They're gonna be able to convert them right and ho꧒pefully your sales people are that great
Mary
0:17:08

 

But the reality is the reality is👍 that if you don't have pricing on your website, they're going to think you
ha💝ve something to hide. They're goin𓃲g to get frustrated because they might find it somewhere else,
and they might not even giv☂e your salesperson the time of day to explain the way you want them to
explain. If you ☂put it right o🥃ut there, it automatically builds that trust.
Mary
0:17:31
It automatically makes you transparent. And🌊 that's what storytelling really should be about, is about
an open dialogue, about an honest dialogue where you'ဣre inviting qu𓂃estions. You want to invite any
question that any𒊎one has, bring it on, we're going to answer it for you. I mean, that's th🅘e framework,
right?
Alex
0:17:49
That's the dream.
Mary
0:17:50
That's the whole thing.
Mary
0:17:51
That's the drea🅰m. And that is what is, at the end of the day,𒁏 going to get you more sales.
Alex
0:17:56
Get you more sales and establish you as a trusted vಞoice in whatever space or industry t🌊hat you're in.
Mary
0:18:00
Absolutely.
Alex
0:18:01
So for 🦩business owners out there, for leaders out there that are marketing their sales𒈔 leaders, how
do they go about implementing this, right? Obviously, read the boo♑k, go check out Stor𓄧yBrand if you
haven't, but once you get acclimat💮ed with StoryBrand, what's the best way to go
Alex
0:18:15
about starting to implement this 🥃and to create a culture around this within your organization?
Mary
0:18:19
I'm gonna say it again, you just said it, but I'm going to say again, if you wꦯant to 💃get started with
StoryBrand, you must read the b♑ook. You must read the book. It is a quick read, it's a great r✱ead, it's
engrossing, but it's going to give you all th🍷e inf🌃ormation you need
Mary
0:18:33
to really understand how power𝓡ful this framework is and t💫o really help you understand how to clarify
your message. Because I didn't get intཧo, it💝's a seven-part framework. I didn't even get into the seven
different elements ꧑of storytelling that you n🐻eed to know.

 

Mary
0:18:47
That's going to explain everything and help you understa🧜nd how to go about filling out that
framework basic꧙ally. The second thing, you need to decide how much you're going to in🔴vest in this
buyer's journey and how deep of a journey you're going to go on.🍒 And with any journey, you're going
to need a guide. And I know when I'🍎m saying ꦆthis, Alex, I know someone's going to be like, all right,
here's
Mary
0:19:09
the pitch.
5
0:19:10
We're getting the pitch for the guide.
Mary
0:19:11
Yes, Impacওt helps people with this. Yes, we run these workshops all the time because it does help
people because t🐼he problem I s🐼ee with people trying to do this on their own, and I have seen people
try to do it on their own, is that there is n𝄹o structure.
Mary
0:19:26
There's no expert guide w♔ho's been trained o൲n how to get the most out of this. So what happens is a
few things, either they 𝐆have 10 standing meetings where they just end up going around in circles
and wasting a ton of time where nothing actually geꦰts done.
Mary
0:19:41
They have a lot of conversatio𓆉ns.๊ Nothing gets done. Or they have arguments because they can't
agree on the hero or the problem or what that aspira🔯tional identity should be, and all they do is
bicker. And there's 🐎no mediator there to get them back on track.
Alex
0:19:57
Right, and to move theꦅ co♊nversation forward in a meaningful way.
Mary
0:20:00
Exactly. And some people will even fill out that seven part framewoꦜrk that I was talking about. And
then they'll sit there a𝓡nd say, how do I implement 🔯this? What do I do? I mean, you filled out the
sheet, but how do I get my entire company on board witওh StoryBrand? How do we roll this out? How
do we actually put it on our website? Because i🃏t's not a one to one framework to website
necessarily.
Mary
0:20:20
There's work that has to be done. But how d🌞o we implement it? And then they get stuck there. So
you c꧑an go it alone, and you might end up wasting 💟a ton of time, you might end up with a ton of
headaches, you might end up

 

Mary
0:20:34
with some fighting and not talking🔥🍬 to your CEO for the next three weeks. Whatever it is, I've seen it
all. So the guide is really what's going to ensure t✨hat you ಞend up with a clear message, you
understand how to roll it out to your company,
Mary
0:20:48
and you end up with that website that's going to tell that story and cl𝕴arify your message to the world.
Alex
0:20:54
Totally, totally. And accountability is a huge piece💯 too. And that's something that coaches, it doesn't
have to be impact, but in general, coaches keep you accountable and make sure th🤪at on🌠 a weekly
basis
Alex
0:21:04
you're doing the things and you're checking in and if not, you're putting a plan together to make su🧸re
that you can catch up or𝕴 do what you need to do to stay on track with th💞e goals that you set out from
the get go. So, it's really important.
Mary
0:21:15
Yeah, I just talked to a 𝐆client, I'm not kidding you, just this week, where we were talking about
Sto꧟ryBrand, and they said, you know, we're gonna give it a shot, 🎶we're gonna, they had a meeting
about it, and he came back to me and he said,
Mary
0:21:26
Mary, he's l✨ike, I don't know what we're doing. And he said, we had the mee✃ting, we went in circles, I
need help, like how, cause I'm not gonna push, I'm not gonna say,▨ you know, we can help you with
that. And t⛄hey tried it and he re𒅌ally said, I feel like we wasted two hours.
Mary
0:21:45
So, headache, not worth it.
Alex
0:21:47
Well, and somet🦹imes too, having a guide. Like, this is๊ an analogy, but like, if you're going on a hike,
you're going vacation somewhere, and you're gonna go on a h♛ike in the wo𝐆ods and you've never
been in these woods before, you should probably go wi🎃th so🅘mebody
Alex
0:21:59
that knows the woods and know꧅s the trails so you don't get lost or some🔯thing like that. And it's the
same idea here✤ where it's like you should pair wꦐith a coach or with somebody that's done this
before, that's familiar with it, that 🍃can do all the things that we just talk🍰ed about. Keep you
accountable, keep you foc𝔉used, figure out how to have the right conversations that
Alex
0:22:14

 

you're not wasting time and eneꦑrgy and you're getting veไry pointed in how to make these changes.
Mary
0:22:18
I'm glad you said the right conversations because it really is so cruciꦕal to have someone someone to
put the guardrails on beꦑcause anyone can have a conversation about who's our character.🌺 Anyone
can say, who's our villain? What are our problems? And come upജ w🤡ith some stuff. But if you don't
have someone who knows, you know, for example, someone🐻 says, okay, well,
Mary
0:22:40
our problem is, you know, that the industry is r🥂eally complex. And then you have to say, but what is
the root problem here🅠? What is the ro🍬ot cause? And people often don't think that way. So you need
s👍omeone😼 who's been here before. You need someone who's gone through the training,
Mary
0:22:56
who's worked with so many different industries to be able to get you to wher𒈔e you have to go
because you might not know that you came up with the wrong answe🍬r.
Alex
0:23:04
So true.
Alex
0:23:05
Alཧl right, so we know the importance of having a coach. I a𒐪lso want to ask you since we got you here
and you work with a lot of c🌼lients, 💛how does this play into the day-to-day for your team and the web
t🎉eam building websites for impacts clients? Do you always recommend StoryBrand?
Alex
0:23:19
Hღow does that play into howꦕ you build and design sites for our clientele?
Mary
0:23:23
Yeah, so reg𓄧ardless of what shape your🌸 website is in, regardless of your budget, regardless of
anything, starting with StoryBrand is table stakes for doing a new ♈w🔥ebsite. And some people might
think, you know, messaging🍬 first. Well, we have to talk about design. We have to talk about the page
strategy. We have to talk about things like that.
Alex
0:23:42
I want to look at color swatches.
3
0:23:44
Right?
Mary
0:23:45
Yea🌄h. But we say you have to work wit🍒h a coach first to go through the StoryBrand workshop so that
you can clarify your messaging because that is ♎going to be the thing that anchors your home page.

 

Your whole story is anchored around that. That is the first thing that all of our clients wܫho go through
a website redesi🍨gn that we expect you to do. And we expect you to read the book.
Mary
0:24:07
We expect your whole organization who's going to be in the workshop to r🔯ead the book and then to
go through thatও exercise. And every single one comes out of that workshop feeling immensely better
about their story, about their message and saying, My gosh, I don't even know if we 🧔knew how
discombobulated and tangled our message was until we went thr꧃ough this, and now it is so much
clearer, so much simpler. And then fওor me, it's a pretty easy application to the website. There are
some things that we have to do 💃to it to make it fit into that inherent str⛄ucture
Mary
0:24:41
that I tal♓ked about. But it flows so beautifully from doing that workshop into our homepage copy, and
then we understand how to tell that story on our service pages, our solution p🔜ages, whatever they
are. A꧅nd it really makes the messaging aspect of a website a lot better.
Alex
0:25:02
It makes sense, too, because we do the𝔉 same thing in the video world, where if you don't have a
script that's locked down, you shouldn't really go sho🌊ot. Because inevitably what happens is you
shoo💜t it, and then in the editing room, the client will go, ìOh, ca❀n we change this copy and can we
change this?î And that means🐼 you have to go back and res꧙hoot, which I feel like for a developer, itís
probably
Alex
0:25:20
the same thingও. If you doní🍎t have that copy and the branding laid out correctly and you develop this
whole page or multiple pages and then the client sees it and t♍heyíre like, ìWe donít like the𒀰 copy.î
Youíre basically hitting 🐲the restart button again and having t🍌o go back to square one. So it sounds
like doing this framework and usin🔯g StoryBrand allows you to hash all these things out a🍒head of
time. And then once you get it hashed out, it just streamli🎶nes
Alex
0:25:41
the whole process from building out the site and 🍃getting it to where it nee💫ds to be.
Mary
0:25:44
Absolute♍ly. You can do it later. I will say it makes things harder. So different people have di💟fferent
budgets. They have different ways they have to go about doing th🌸ings. And I have had people not
start with a story brand
Mary
0:25:56
worksho🐎p, and inevitably, we get the website done. The website looks great. 🅷The coach will come
back and say, gue💃ss what? We💝're going back to that home page. And the first thing we're going to
do is we'r💖e going to update that story because it is so critical, so hugely important to the success of
any conversion path that you have on your website. So we might do it out of o♑rder. It could happen,
Mary
0:26:21

 

but it can't be ignor𝕴ed. It has to get done at some point.
Alex
0:26:24
Yeah, absolutely. This has been a great conver♍sation. Any final thoughts? Anything else that
business leaders or people tha꧒t ar🃏e thinking about StoryBrand are thinking about redesigning their
website that they s🐬hould know about before we close?
Mary
0:26:36
I will just say,♓ again, even🐻 though this is a very basic thing, even though this is a very fundamental
thing, it should be a top p♔riority ꧑thing that you do. Because I have people come to me all the time
and they'll say, oh, I need🌠 more qualified leads. We need more of this, 👍we need more of that.
Mary
0:26:53
We're not converting well. When I talked before about ro🉐ot causes, a lot of the time that root cause
can be traced back tꦍo your messaging, and it can be traced back to not having clear messaging⛄ and
having confusing messaging.
Mary
0:27:06
So I usually will tell people to go back to home base, sꦍtart there, clarify your message first, and then
we can g🧜et into conversion rate optimizღation and things like that. But you can't overlook it.
Alex
0:27:20
Well said. Very well said. I couldn't agree more. Mary Brown, everybody, if 𒊎they have questions or
follow-up questions, if they want to learn how to impl🍨ement, ꧃if they want to talk to you about
coaching or whatever the case may be, how ♏can they get in ꦬtouch with you?
Mary
0:27:30
Yeah. So I c🅘an be found in Impact Plus. I love hanging out in Impact Plus and I love when people
send me messages there, so please do. I am there to help. Or you can ꩲfind me on the website and I
have, you know, my door is open. I do have office hours for things likeဣ this.
Alex
0:27:46
Excellent. Mary, thanks for being on the🅘 show. Yeah, happy to be here. Excellent. And for
everybody o💟ut there listening and watching,🌳 this is Endless Customers. Appreciate you tuning in and
we♕'ll see you on the next episode. Appreciate you ꦯtuning in and we'll see you on the next episode.
Bye!

 

About This Episode

"If you confuse, you lose," Donald Miller reminds us in his 澳洲幸运5开奖官网在线查询开奖结果:StoryBrand framework. When it comes to business websites, companies often go clever or vague, leaving visitors scratching their heads and thinking, “Okay, but what do you actually do?” Miller’s principle underscores the importance of clarity and precision — and reminds us of just how🐭 quickly you can lose someone’s attention.  

In this episode of Endless Customers, Alex Winter speaks with Mary Brown, IMPACT’s lead web strategist, about how StoryBrand can ꧒help businesses refine their messaging to🐽 deliver a better website experience.

”People naturally connect with stories,” she explains, and a𓃲dvises b🔜usinesses to “leverage stories to help people emotionally connect to your messaging." 

Unlike traditional marketing approaches, StoryBrand flips the script, positioning the customer in the center (as  “the hero” in Miller’s language), with a focus on solving that customer’s problem instead of boasting about business accomplishments.This shift helps to 澳洲幸运5开奖官网在线查询开奖结果:build trust and set clear stakes, sh♌owing cu🌱stomers what they stand to gain by choosing your product or service.

Connect with Mary

Mary Brown is the lead website strategist at IMPACT, and she has lent her expertise to website projects in dozens o𝔍f industries. 

Get to know Mary

Connect with Mary on

Learn more about how IMPACT’꧙s team delivers the website your customers want

Keep Learning

• Watch: 澳洲幸运5开奖官网在线查询开奖结果:Is a New Web꧃site Worth the Cost?
• Read: 澳洲幸运5开奖官网在线查询开奖结果:How to Hire Your In-House Webไsite Specialist
• Test your site: 澳洲幸运5🌃开奖官网在线查询开奖结果:Free Websitꦡe Performance Assessment

__

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Want to tell us about a challenge you’re facing? 澳洲幸运5开奖官网在线查询开奖结果:Schedule a f𓄧ree coaching session with one of our experts.